Micheal Newdow in his own words.
Replies: Talking
Everyone is a little mixed up on the amendment: the framers included "freedom of religion" so that the government could not establish it's OWN religion, like the Church of England, who dominated both personal and governmental issues. The Church of England was running the whole show! The framers called for seperation of church and state so that the government couldn't say, Okay we are going to form the Church of the USA and everyone here has to join & believe what we "ordain" or be persecuted (executed, exiled, jailed etc..). Is Mr. Newdow not trying to do the same thing by saying the government should believe like HE BELIEVES?!
Posted by A thinker @ 10/14/2003 06:44 PM EST
The Webster's New College dictionary defines "atheism" as "1)disbelief in or denial of the existence of God, 2) the quality or state of being godless." That would mean that atheists have no belief in an existence of a Supreme Being (Christian God or otherwise)I find it interesting that Mr. Newdow refers to himself not only as atheist but also as an "ordained minister" of the Universal Life Church. Isn't that an oxymoron for an atheist? What is he a "minister" of? In order to "minister" to a church body would mean that there would have to be an accountability to a higher power. Who/what would that be? And if so, that means he is not an atheist. So what does that make him?? CONFUSED! Also interesting...the ULC has several Biblical scripture references on it's website. Doesn't that also contradict atheist beliefs? I call on all my Christian brothers and sisters to pray this man learns the one Truth!
Posted by Your Sister In Christ @ 10/14/2003 06:33 PM EST
I think he needs to move to another country if he doesn't respect the our flag.
Posted by Jessica Spears @ 08/29/2003 03:04 PM EST
I think he needs to move to another country if he doesn't respect the flag.
Posted by Jessica Spears @ 08/29/2003 03:04 PM EST
I found it interesting that in 1998 Michael Newdow tried to challenge the Pledge in Florida when his daughter was not even of school age. When he was rejected for this reason he moved to Sacramento and targeted the Elk Grove school district because he didn't think his daughter should be forced to take part in the Pledge. That is a ridiculous statement that Newdow tried to back up, though, because it was in the year 1943 that the Supreme Court passed a law saying that kids couldn't be forced to say the Pledge. It seems as though this man should have done a little more background research before he took a head dive into a matter way beyond his own control. He may be an atheist but as with every other religion group he should take into consideration that others enjoy taking a part in the Pledge and rely on it to fill them with a sense of patriotism. America is the land of the free and with that comes many freedoms that should be appreciated not taken for granted. If there were one person I would want to learn from this it would be Michael Newdow. Because he is taking a lot for granted, and not respecting his rights and an American.
Posted by Tiana Cairns @ 06/01/2003 05:48 PM EST
also i got a question for all you non believers..... where did all this come from?? you tell me the BIG BANG well where did that come from.... its like the old saying what came first the chicken or the egg.
and dont tell me evolution because that was god i say
Posted by the questioner @ 04/14/2003 10:06 AM EST
just a note to all you guys 'allah' isnt the actual name of the Muslim God, it is the Arabic word for GOD. So when you hear the word god and allah they are talking about god in general, i mean even christian arabs i know call god allah in their language its just their word for it, so be careful where tyou use it!!
Posted by josh @ 04/14/2003 10:01 AM EST
Hey you should sent me ALL of ur money right away ever last penny so you can be fucking happy. THey each have the almighty's name on them all pennies to 100 dollar bills so you give them to me BASTARD.
Posted by ANdy D @ 03/01/2003 12:27 PM EST
The Lord is God of all that is in heaven above, and on the earth beneath. If Jesus is the Lord what does that make him?lol. I feel sorry for any1 that has not been hit with the holy ghost, 4 Jesus said u will no its him 4 he will send his messenger. praise be to my Lord and savior, I cant wait to b in his presence!!!!
Posted by Jesus freak Markham @ 03/01/2003 12:40 AM EST
My fair children, have I taught you nothing? Open up to Michael Newdows ideals, for they can not change the world. It is acceptance that lets the world be peaceful, and this hate and bickering will lead your mind atrophic. Now stop popping your bones in ur head for you will get arthritis.
Farewell,
The Lamb
Posted by Jesus Christ @ 02/04/2003 11:51 PM EST
To the people of non-believers AKA Atheists.... Do you love your children? do you love your spouse? do you love your parents? Do you love your Friends.... You most likely answered yes! right? Well I have never saw love, but I know it exists... You can's see God, so you think he doesn't exist? Hmmmmm interesting, you see love but you know its exist! but you can't see God but he doesnt exist!!! I am lost? True story applys to Christians but it is for everyone to read... A young 5 yr oldgirl was brought up under atheist parents, was taught nothing about Jesus... well her father came home early ina violent rage and killed his wife in the living room while the girl was sitting in fornt of the tv the father was so upset that he committed suicide, the girl was adopted by a Christian fam. the mother took the girl to Sunday school and the mother told the teacher that she didnt know anything about Jesus.. so the teacher took a picture of Christ from the wall and held it up in front of the girl.. she said " young lady do you know who this is?" the girl said yes! that is the man who held me the night my moomy and daddy died!!!" Hmmmmm ???? makes you wonder huhhh?
Posted by MATTHEW @ 11/01/2002 11:49 PM EST
TO YOU ATHEIST I LOVE YOU!!!! GOD LOVES YOU!!!!!!!!! MORE THAN YOU KNOW IT <><
JOKE ::::
WHAT DO YOU CALL A DDEAD ATHEIST?
SOME ONE ALL DRESSED UP WITH NO PLACE TO GO!!!!!!!!
Posted by JAMES @ 11/01/2002 11:40 PM EST
I would like to add my 2 cents to this ruling. I am a Christian now for 4 years, I have always believed in Christ, but was called to him 4 years ago... Some of you may question the bible, the tora, or other religious doctrines or books. But if they are so wrong, explain to me real life miracles, the un-explained... I do understand how the word God offends you, but please can I just ask of those unbelievers not use His name profane, after all it does offend us believers... Now to the whole Pledge debate. This stanza does not specify which God, there are many religions who have a God of some type, it does not say I pledge to the Christian God, the Jewish God, the Muslim God, the Buhda God ect..... it just says God.I fell there are more people who believe in A God then those who don't. I am sorry if you dont like ti in the Pledge, well no one is forcing you to say it... Just ask a Jehovahs Whitness, they stand and honor the flag, but do not say the pledge, that is their religious belief, they do not complain of it, I know many of them and they are the best people you will ever meet. I pray that those of you who do not know of a GOD whether it be Christian, Hewish, Muslim, Islamis, buhdist ect... find one of them.... Please dont ruin things for those who appreciate them. The pledge was also made for those who followed it and died for it, you would not have your right to even bring this debate up in some countries where communism chooses what people say. Think now of the Millions of American men and women who have died or are even serving this country FOR YOU!!! Give them some respect, they know what sacrifice really is... Don't take advantage of them PRAYER TO YOU ALL
Posted by Darin @ 11/01/2002 11:32 PM EST
Mr.Newdow said to the court, " why should I be made to feel like an outsider"! Answer: If a person truly believes in what they say they believe, woul'd'nt they feel honored to be considered an outsider? After all everyone around him is lost in ignorance and only he and a few other atheists know the truth.......... correct! Being an outsider should be a priveledge then! Unless there is something about a belief in God he envy's! Sound familiar anyone! Let the Truth be known! This can be applied to any belief! If he believed there was'nt a God then he and other atheists would actually be insiders! How can a group of people or a government make an insider feel like an outsider unless that person doubted their own "beliefs"? This test is applicable to any belief or religion! Test it for yourself!
Posted by Barto @ 07/04/2002 03:23 AM EST
Mr.Newdow said to the court, " why should I be made to feel like an outsider"! Answer: If a person truly believes in what they say they believe, woul'd'nt they feel honored to be considered an outsider? After all everyone around him is lost in ignorance and only he and a few other atheists know the truth.......... correct! Being an outsider should be a priveledge then! Unless there is something about a belief in God he envy's! Sound familiar anyone! Let the Truth be known! This can be applied to any belief! If he believed there was'nt a God then he and other atheists would actually be insiders! How can a group of people or a government make an insider feel like an outsider unless that person doubted their own "beliefs"? This test is applicable to any belief or religion! Test it for yourself!
Posted by Barto @ 07/04/2002 03:22 AM EST
There is no such thing as a "Atheist". One has to come to work themselves to be called an Atheist. In the Bible it says in Psalm 14:1 I quote: "The fool hath said in his heart,There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good". What a brilliant mind gone to waste when it could have been used to better some laws we have not for Mr. Newdow but for the whole nation. He shows he is very selfish and he has not gotten scared enough for if and when he does he will say Oh my God! for it's built in him by God. Like I said you have to work at being an Atheist for there is no such person.
Posted by Eligio Thomas @ 07/04/2002 02:15 AM EST
If you truly believed in what you say you believe, would'nt it be an honor to be considered an outsider to others?
Posted by truth for the masses @ 07/03/2002 11:01 PM EST
say it however! If you say One nation under God that does'nt make it so! Also if the under God is taken out that does'nt mean we are'nt Under God either!
Posted by 3 @ 07/03/2002 10:54 PM EST
Even if the "under God" was taken out, it would'nt prevent my children from reciting it that way!
Posted by poppy @ 07/03/2002 10:50 PM EST
I would'nt want the government to require me to say anything in regard's to my own personal belief! If I truly believed what I profess to believe in, they could'nt make me do so whether I believe in God or Allah, or nothing at all!
Posted by Sven Mulhauser @ 07/03/2002 10:44 PM EST
Say "under allah" if it makes you feel better! say the pledge the way you want it's free speech! Say "under nature" if you like if these things are what you believe in then fine but don't cry if you are the only one who does so! Don't say you are left out just because most people might say under God! Christians should not have a problem with this because Christ said " I wish you were hot or cold but, because you are lukewarm, I am about to spit you out! Man must freely choose what he believes in regard's to faith!A belief in nothing is still a belief! I do not fear the lines of faith being drawn in the sand. God made man with free will to choose! I will say the pledge how I choose! Leave it to the individual! This is what is meant by seperation of church and state people! It means you can say the pledge "under whatever you want" and the government cannot tell you to say otherwise! This ensures our freedom of religion people!
Posted by Korn @ 07/03/2002 10:39 PM EST
If the pledge said "under Allah" would all these people feel the same way?
Posted by Concerned American @ 07/03/2002 09:35 PM EST
There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole! WW2 vet
Posted by Seth @ 07/03/2002 02:30 PM EST
If the "under God" statement were taken out of the pledge, would this prevent an individual to recite under God while saying the pledge? What will they do to the children who say under God anyways? While the argument is that a school should not endorse religion, it does'nt prevent individuals from doing so! This would not make it illegal for a child to say "Under God" as this is free speech! Do you folks think a believer in God will refrain from doing so because it makes others feel like outcasts? To put it another way, do you think an atheist would say under God just because the pledge is written that way? No! Since the government cannot require an atheist to aknowledge a God in any way, neither can it require a believer to denounce God in any way! Let the children know believers!
Posted by me @ 07/03/2002 01:39 PM EST
Mr. Newdow said "I don't trust in God." He has therefore tacitly admitted that God exists, whether he believes in Him or not. However, he is so angry by what well-intentioned Christians have said and done in God's name that he has chosen to openly defy God. How can anyone claim to know absolutely that God does not exist? Mr. Newdow is not being rational, because his words are devoid of humility.
People who rely solely upon their own understanding already have their reward.
Posted by Tom Parsons @ 07/03/2002 11:38 AM EST
This country was founded on a belief under God. This guy should thank his lucky stars that his parents thought this country was worth living in to have for him to be born here. sure he has the right to say what he feels but keep his mundian thoughts separate from the Pledge and such. How dare here throw has opinion on us. Keep GOD in Schools. I am sure when he was a tot he recieted the Pledge.
Posted by Ed Miller @ 07/03/2002 10:51 AM EST
We need more rational people like Mr. Newdow. The religious right is poised to take over the country right now, and this is a VERY scary thing!
Posted by Tom @ 07/03/2002 04:19 AM EST
So, Bill if the Bible was written by men, people would'nt have any problem with it until disproved otherwise? Damn!
Posted by Chris Yenke @ 07/03/2002 03:41 AM EST
If man created God then men also created the Bible and was not authored by God, but by men! This is why the book is questioned and doubted and is found to be foolishness in the eyes of many! It is good to question "truths" that men have for you! When you learned that George Washington was the first President did you learn this from other then men? What have you learned in life that is not from mankind? Why do you trust these things? In fact we tend to treat mankinds "truths" as gold don't we! Once upon a time their were only 7 planets in our solar system and now im not sure I think 9 but I read that their may be 10! If there is 10 and only ten it did'nt become so when we discovered it, but the truth was always there! Man's truth is as follows: Today's wisdom is Tommorrow's foolishness! God's truth has always been........and always will be! Who's wisdom will you rely upon?
Posted by Bill Reisenhower @ 07/03/2002 03:38 AM EST
Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion!
Posted by claude @ 07/03/2002 03:15 AM EST
One only needs to look at the history of Europe to get a clear picture as to the reason for "establishment of religion clause"! I'll give you a hint, it was'nt because Britain merely aknowledged a God! They actually forced people (sometimes violently) to worship the God of the government's choice! The duty of a judge is to interpret the intentions of these laws, If our founding father's intended to obliterate the name of God from all state and government buildings then why did they aknowledge God in the Declaration of Independance
Posted by Bart @ 07/03/2002 03:10 AM EST
Which religion is being established in the pledge of allegience? Or are we confusing religion from beliefs? If an aknowledgement of the existence of God can be considered religion then not aknowledging the existence of God could also be! Since neither can be proven or disproven they both require faith! Faith: evidence of things hoped for and yet not seen!
Posted by Bart Thouvenin @ 07/03/2002 02:54 AM EST
I THINK IT IS SINFULLY WRONG WHAT
THE COURTS DID FOR ONE IDIOTIC ATHIEST JUST BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HIS POOR ATHIEST KIDS TO SAY UNDER GOD. I GUESS HE WOULD PREFER
UNDER MAN. THIS DECISION TAKES AWAY OUR RIGHTS THANK YOU VERY MUCH
AND WHEATHER YOU BELIEVE IN GOD OR NOT WHICH YOU HAVE MADE IT CLEAR TO THE WHOLE WORLD THAT YOU DON'T
YOU WILL ONE DAY HAVE ANSWER FOR
ALL YOUR SINS AND YOU WILL HAVE TO DECIDE BETWEEN HEAVEN AND HELL. SO WHAT IS NEXT YOU GOING TO TAKE IN GOD WE TRUST OFF OUR MONEY. YOU GOING TRY TO SHUT DOWN CHURCHES
AND ALL RELIGIOUS THINGS BECAUSE
YOU POOR LITTLE BABIES MIGHT GET OFFENDED. IT SAYS IN OUR COSTITUTION THAT WE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH BUT YOU ARE TRYING TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND WHAT THE COURT RULED IS TOTALLY UNCOSTITUTIONAL.
HOPE YOU ENJOY LIVING IN HELL BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T CHANGE THATS WHERE YOUR SOUL WILL GO.
Posted by Sherry @ 07/02/2002 05:30 PM EST
I applaud Michael Newdow's courage to speak out in the face of so much disagreement. I have been impressed with how well poised he is in interviews as well. Like so many, I am not an atheist, but believe that we all have a right to think for ourselves in an un-polluted school environment. As a Jewish child in school, I was intimidated when told to sing Christmas songs that celebrated a God my parents assured me was not ours. However, to not sing along had me stand out in a way that was horrifying to a 9 year old. Children have a right to get their values and religious beliefs from home. If none is provided, they will form their own in adulthood. This is true freedom.
Posted by yella werder @ 07/02/2002 04:02 PM EST
I believe if the Government is asked to expunge all mention of God in every aspect of its being and operations, we are well on the way to establishing a national religion - Secular Humanism.
According to the Humanist Manifestos I & II: Humanism is "a philosophical, religious, and moral point of view."[1] And it is a faith, by their own admission. The Humanist Manifestos declare: "These affirmations [in the Manifestos] are not a final credo or dogma but an expression of a living and growing faith."[2] Secular Humanists, instead of believing that God created the universe and then created man, they believe that man created God [3].
[1] Paul Kurtz, Humanist Manifestos I & II (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1973), p. 3.
[2] ibid, p. 24.
[3] Corliss Lamont, The Philosophy of Humanism (New York: Frederick Ungar Publishing, 1982), p. 145.
Posted by Wolley Segap @ 07/02/2002 01:14 AM EST
I have added Mr. Newdow to my list of heroes. I have read the Ninth Circuit's opinion, and I concur with it. I would add that it is wrong to coerce children to recite any pledge by rote, whether it mentions deity or not. I would also add that the word "God" should be removed from the currency. The government must be completely neutral when it comes to religion.
Posted by Kyle Williams @ 07/01/2002 08:11 AM EST
I have just seen Michael Newdow interviewed on Fox News, and was impressed with his intelligent responses to the attempted traps and red herrings delivered by his interviewer who, after all, does this for a living. It was hard not to feel that dogma in society will vilify this gentle man with views that make no threat to anyone, unlike the views of theists.
Posted by David Walker @ 06/30/2002 12:32 PM EST
"...One nation indivisible..."
The possibility of reciting the Pledge of Allegiance without the words "under God" is an appealing prospect to me. Those two words have never seemed to fit and, indeed, in reciting the pledge, people almost always stumble over the phrasing at that point.
This also comes to me as a shaking of my own faith foundations. I am an American Baptist clergyman, though all my life I've found myself in a lover's quarrel with the church. I continue to affirm my devotion to Jesus of Nazareth, but am increasingly unable to affirm a transcendent power, though Jesus himself apparently prayed to a power he addressed as "Father".
Perhaps I am in fact a secular humanist. Perhaps Jesus was also.
Posted by Warren Hall Crain @ 06/29/2002 11:36 PM EST
I agree with Newdow. Though I am not an atheist - I have no basis for an opinion as to the existence or non-existence of a deity - supposition or arguments in reliance on faith do not suffice for me - I feel that the importation of references to deity in any form in the processes of government, especially when they tacitly imply advocacy, falls within the clear proscription of establishment of religion set forth in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
Posted by Ralph Johansen @ 06/29/2002 07:09 PM EST
